[River Hill]

For those of you who have experience with both, what are the pros and cons of a rubber tracked skid loader VS. a rubber tire skid loader. As some of you know I am considering the Bobcat A300, but I have been doing some reading about the ASV, CAT, and Bobcat rubber tracked loaders. The only downside I can see to a rubber tracked machine compared to the A300 is they are a few miles a hour slower and the tracks are very expensive to replace. The machine I purchase will be used on asphalt for snow removal. I have not tried a rubber tracked loader next to the All Wheel Steer A300, but I think the A300, might even be better on grass? I just wonder what type of damage a rubber tracked loader will do on turf when turning?

[Bill Schwab]

Where a tired loader will wear tires at 500-600 hours and cost you $550.00 to $800.00, a rubber tracked machine will need scheduled down time to replace the under carraige starting at 2500, and perhpas going as long as 4000 hours. It's cost is $2,000.00=$2,800.00.

Now, personally, if you have the space, I would stay clear of the rubber tracked machines, we have an ASV-30, which is needed for the spaces we work in.

Go with a 935 Cat crawler loader, considerably more money, more weight, more machine, however, you have a 12,000 lb break out, lift capacity of 2.5-3 tons, and track longevity of over 10,000 hours with the right operator. Get a 4 in one bucket and you have it all. Cost, well, about $8,500.00

Any programed wear should be built into the hourly rate of the machine and recoverd by the time those parts go.

Of any track machine, keep in mind that there is one thing that destroys tracks and undercarraiges more than anything...High speed backing up. Usually knocks out the planetary drive bearings and drive gears prematurley.

Last thing, all manufacturers numbers on capacities are slanted. And, with foreign made or owned equipment, the horsepower rating is at European numbers, which are less than what American numbers are.

[Will Pacala]

I would consider the track-loader for your application. I think that you should definitely try one first to see if it's what you expected.

Be careful, I don't think that the track loaders are recommended for a snowblower if that's what you will use as a snow removal attachment.

A few things to consider are
1. Will it be used for regular landscaping as well.
2. Who will use it. If it's an employee of yours and not you yourself make sure that he knows how to use it and is good at it.
3. What's in the budget. The tracks may get things caught up in them and are more likely to create an issue or get damaged.
3. All-wheel steering is great but not the best out there in snow!
4. Trailer and truck may not be able to handle the extra weight of the All-Wheel steer loader.

These are the basics!

The wheels on the all wheel may become stuck or slippery in winter conditions and absolutely terrible in the ice.

More thing are going to pop up when you are deciding between which to buy. But in my opinion it all boils down to what you want, can use or think about each machine.

It's a big investment!! Choose wisely!!


Also think about it and talk it over other opinions always help

[Paul]

A Cat 935 loader? For snow removal? Ok I've run them but they would mark up any parking lot you put them on!

For most landscapers a rubber tire skid steer will be the one they want as a first machine. I've heard people say they would pick one brand over others, so I won't say what to get. I would suggest you try out several brands for a week on different jobs. Take a visit to the dealer and walk thru his shop. Check out his service area and find out what they have to offer. In my mind dealer service is more important than brands.

I can't comment on the newer rubber track loaders, the 864 bobcat is the newest one that I have experience with. I like the machine for dirt work on slopes but I wouldn't run it on pavement all the time, track replacement is expensive.

One question I have to ask is, Who is going to run this machine?
If it's yourself then look in to a track machine. If your letting your crews run the machine then keep with the rubber tire machine.

[Will Pacala]

Just like I had said. Who is running the machine and where. So I'm with Paul. And tracks are expensive and much harder to put on and replace than tires!! That takes up a ton of valuable time. if I were you and you wanted to look into buying a tracked loader, check out the ASV loaders. ASV stands for All Surface Vehicle. They really mean what they say. It works great in mud and grass. Leaving almost no impressions.

[Bill Schwab]

Paul:

Had a blonde hair moment and missed the line about snow removal...

Tim the Toolman would use one come on man! Arrrrrrr Arrrrrrr Arrrrrrrr!!!!!!

[jwholden]

River,

I bought a 763 about seven years ago. The machine is easy to transport, has a decent lift capacity, and is very easy to run. I think it is a wonderful machine and if I buy another I will keep it.

I had to rent a Bobcat T200 for a job this season (there is a post and some photos somewhere on this site). The traction of a tracked machine makes up for the additional cost of maintenance, in my opinion. I was able to complete a new lawn install that I would have had to wait a week on with my 763. Every time I find my tires slipping, or the lawn rutted up where I am working, I rembember my two days with the T200.

The only problem is that tracked machines won't work for you in snow.

[River Hill]

I guess I am confused, thats way I am here to learn. I was under the impression the rubber tracked machine such as a T200 would do great in the snow? I guess that's why I was thinking a machine like this would even have some advantages over a A300. Yes I am going to be the solo operator. Why do you think that the A300 will do badly in the snow? I understand it might do badly in all steer mode, but at a flip of a switch you can be in traditional skid mode. I get confliting stories from dealers. Some say how well a ASV will do pushing a box in the snow and others say it's ok.

[Will Pacala]

Yeah well.......Rubber track is too slippery but metal "over-tracks" might work fine on a skid-steer. Like I've said before it depends on both you and what your going to be doing with it! And those box blades are great for the snow removal...but I've heard that with all that force and weight it winds-up almost killing the machine its stuck on. I would stick with the plow blade but then again I have no clue when and where you will be using this machine and under what conditions.

[River Hill]

Will I think you are correct about the rubber tracks being too slippery and I won't take a metal tracked machine on asphalt. I am going to demo a T300 and a A300 next week side by side, so I will have some more feedback then. I am hoping to get some snow so I can give each a run.

[Paul]

River Hill, the track will work well on snow, but track wear will be greater. You have to figure out if replacement cost of the tracks will be out weighed by the speed of the machine. I find it hard to justify the replacement cost of the tracks compared to tire replacement cost and machine cost. We still use skid steers for snow removal, they push 8' or 10' snow pushers. I do find that the 2 speed models are more efficient pushing snow. 12 mph vs 6 means your moving that much more snow, plus they don't get bogged down moving heavier wet snow. Single speed models seem to break traction faster.

The reason I asked about single operator or crew run machine, maintenance is higher on a track machine. Track adjustment, cleaning the track and undercarriage, and watching what you are running on can make or break your pocket book. This year I had one operator on my little tractor,missed seeing a good size rock that got caught in it's undercarriage costing me just over 8K in track replacement. I know it's a bit different than a skid steer type track loader but the same can happen to them.

Will, we have been running snow pushers on our skid steers for 6 years now and have not had a problem with any of the loaders. The only thing I can think of is people haven't been taking care of there machines as well as I have. The places that I run them have long pushes and not much room to store the snow. Snow pushers save us many hours of loader work and less wear and tear on our trucks.
Will one more thing, Have you ever run steel tracks on asphalt? If you have you would have seen all the damage they can do with one turn!

[Will Pacala]

Oh yeah I know what steel can do to the asphalt. OK ,OK Scratch that. The company that uses the snow pushers never takes very good care of their machines at all! They drop the machine at the site that they work (I'm talking snow removal) on say October 10th and won't pick it back up until around......late March. the stores don't care but the machines are pretty ugly and beaten up. They just sit there all the tima and basically rot!! That's the reason I say that. I would never do that to any tool or truck for that matter. It really makes the company look bad.

[PSUscaper]

tracks in snow....

they suck!

Plow a condo complex with my 864(t200) and have slid almost 100 yards down a road without being able to stop. A lot depends on the type of snow and conditions.......but basically, because of the very low ground pressure, the track machine is like a bobsled when on snow covered pavement. I'm not saying that wheeled machines are much better, but do not believe the tracks are better.....I would rather have a wheeled machine for snow.

As for all the problems..........tracks are expensive...................about 4k for the set on the 864. However, I wouldn't buy another machine for my applications. If you are doing a lot of commercial work (pavement), then I would stick with the tires. Tires are much friendlier on pavement.

This year, with all the rain we've gotten (they say this is in the top five rain totals for the last century) the track machine was worth its weight in gold. Half the jobs I did this year would of had me pulling a wheeled machine out every other minute. I swear by tracks now.

I'm very happy with my machine. I bought used, so didn't shell out the big $ upfront. I think as tracked machines become more common, the used market should make them more affordable. They are still somewhat new though, not that many machines out there. If I were set on buying a new machine, I would probably not swing the extra 30-40% more for the tracks.

[Will Pacala]

See!!! that's what I was saying. they are just way too slippery. Although River Hill has the right idea of testing it out first I think thre won't be much competition! I'm still not sure on those tracks. I think that they are not only expensive but a pain to replace. I think that maybe even the all-wheel sttering may not do all that well in the snow and really bad in ice. River Hill, Where are you located, if you get a lot of snow and ice this decision is more important. And what kind of plowing are you doing?? Parking lots, shopping centers, communities, sidewalks??? That will help determine what to buy.

[Tim]

We have 763's. The 763 is great in the dirt, mud, and terrain that you don't mind tearing up. It isn't a very good "light walker" on lawns and scapes. The problem is in the turning of the machine. They just rip the grass up real easy even in slow turns.

On snow removal, I think tracked skid steers just plain suck. When ever you tilt your bucket to the right plowing angle, the 763 just chatters across the surface. I like our old Case 1840, or 1845's with filled tires for moving snow. Not quite as much power, but sure makes getting the job done easier. Tim